[Eric Parks]

Eric Parks on July 23, 2025 at 4:57 pm #23220

Eh… I kinda figured that. Maybe I could argue that at 150 hp the Apache wouldn’t be directionally challenged… 

[Scott]

Scott on July 23, 2025 at 8:34 am #23217

Moving the discussion to another thread – find it here: (https://www.piperflyer.com/forum/unicom/1219-breaking-news-mosaic-final-rule-and-your-piper.html). Feel free to ask if what you’re wondering about hasn’t been covered. I’ll try to dig through the rule document to get you an answer.

[Scott]

Scott on July 23, 2025 at 5:56 am #23214

Your Apache would be ruled out for Sport Pilot operation by this language in the new 61.316:

(5) For powered aircraft other than balloons or airships, the loss of partial power
would not adversely affect directional control of the aircraft and the aircraft design must
allow the pilot the capability of establishing a controlled descent in the event of a partial
or total powerplant failure.

Note also that legacy standard category aircraft aren’t going to magically become LSAs – they’re just going to be eligible to be operated by Sport Pilots (or those operating under Sport privileges).

[Eric Parks]

Eric Parks on July 23, 2025 at 4:16 am #23213

Hmmmm… So, my Apache has a Vs1 of 56 kts. Did they specifically rule out twins? I thought they got rid of the gross weight limit so my 3500 lbs putt-putt twin might become an LSA!

[Eric Parks]

Eric Parks on July 23, 2025 at 3:59 am #23212

OK, that is good news! I had hoped for 58 kts for the Vs1. So 59 is even betterer!

You are more than welcome to go through 700 pages on our behalf!!

I hope the tires do well.

[Scott]

Scott on July 23, 2025 at 3:18 am #23210

I’ll be putting together a specific list of Piper models soon. I’m sorting through the 700-plus page document using the crummy WiFi at a tire store. 🙂

My reading so far:

The important speed for legacy aircraft owners is a Vs1 (clean stall speed) of 59 ktas or less. This allows the aircraft to be operated by a sport pilot, or by another certificate level holder operating with sport pilot privileges. This looks like it’ll include most Cherokees, some Comanches, and a few Arrows, as well as all tube-and-fabric Pipers that I have data for.

The 61 knots Vso (dirty) stall speed that was mentioned in the AirVenture announcement is applicable only to new LSA designs.

If any aircraft is operated by or as a sport pilot, the aircraft is limited to two occupants – pilot and one passenger.

[Jen D]

Jen D on July 23, 2025 at 3:09 am #23209

Hi Eric,
Scott Kinney will be posting a more in-depth recap soon. Stall speed mentioned at the announcement was 61 but according to EAA: the primary limitation will now be a “clean” stall speed (VS1) of 59 knots calibrated airspeed.

Standby for more information and a list of affected aircraft.

Blue skies,
Jen

[Eric Parks]

Eric Parks on July 23, 2025 at 2:43 am #23208

[quote=”Jen D post=4815 userid=43″]Secretary Duffy is supposed to speak at 12:30. We’ll try to get someone over there to cover it.

Jen[/quote]
Jen, Any news on the new rules? Especially the increased stall speed?

[Scott]

Scott on July 22, 2025 at 6:19 am #23207

Yep! Crossing fingers for positive changes for Piper Flyers!

As Jen mentioned, we’re going to try to get someone over to the press conference. Supposedly 12:30 at the EAA Membership Center.
I’m not at AirVenture this year, but am going to keep an eye out for any video that can be posted here.

[Jen D]

Jen D on July 22, 2025 at 5:51 am #23206

Secretary Duffy is supposed to speak at 12:30. We’ll try to get someone over there to cover it.

Jen