[Kristin Winter]

Kristin Winter on January 8, 2021 at 8:39 pm #20450

Hi Jay!

I have to wonder what sort of logbook review you get for free. Mine run $400-500, but then armed with my logbook review, my physical inspection generally only takes about the same amount. Based on the logs, I know what to look at and what not to waste time on.

I second Steve’s suggestion about plugging into the community. If you want to know more about the purchase process for a Comanche, you can email me at kristin at the aviatrix dot com.

The higher altitude of the Comanche is vastly superior to the NA Arrow. The Comanche had a better wing for altitude. The higher horsepower singles are still climbing strongly at 10K and routinely cruise in the 12-13K range. Only a turbo Arrow will do that.

[STEVE]

STEVE on January 8, 2021 at 7:41 pm #20449

Hiy;
I like your reasoning. The Comanche is an airplane that once you own one, you’ll keep it for a long time.
I would suggest going to the AirWorthy Comanche forum mentioned before and ask for anyone living near you for a ride. Another spot you may find a willing owner is one the Piper Comanche page of FB.

Alas, I’m in Yakima, WA for the weekend so can’t meet at Big Bear.
As Kristin mentioned–she is a VERY experienced A & P with Inspection Authorization and very experienced in Comanche maintenance–, Savvy may not have a Comanche specific expert on staff. If you elect to go with Savvy, I would insist on having the pre purchase done by a shop that has extensive Comanche experience.

Even if you have to pay extra to ferry the airplane to a Comanche savvy shop, it will be money well spent.

Let us know how we can help further.

Steve

[Jay Andrews]

Jay Andrews on January 7, 2021 at 4:45 am #20448

Thank you Kristin, Steve, and Jen for the welcome and for your advice!

My primary missions for the plane are 2:

1. I have passed my Instrument Written and am ready to start instrument lessons and would like to do my instrument training in the aircraft that I intend to fly most afterwards. There don’t seem to be many great choices for rentals where I’m at unless I drive 2.5 hours one way.
2. I’ll use the aircraft for travel from Colorado where I live to visit family in Southern California as well as other personal weekend trips.

I was originally looking at Cherokee and Arrow but recently, the Comanche has been growing on me. I’ve seen that there are a great number of Comanche enthusiasts and supporters and that the aircraft has quite a few advantages within this range of airplane. I’ve noticed that there are upgrades like “ram horn” style yokes available and I believe that I’ve seen some with the quadrant style throttle as well. I like the instrument panels that have been modernized with the traditional 6-pack layout rather than the earlier “shotgun panels”. I’d like to get some time in a Comanche to get the feel of one. I understand that the landing speeds and attitude are particularly important in the Comanche.

The Arrows that I’m looking at are 72 and newer so the have the longer fuselage and wider wingspan both of which are important to me. I’ve flown Archers with the tapered wing. I’d like to learn more about the performance difference at elevation and at higher elevation airports with this wing. From what I’ve read, I’ll stay away from the T-tail versions.

@Kristin, Savvy will do a logbook review for free. From there, they would like users to hire them for a Pre-purchase inspection. Rates vary but the numbers I’ve seen are from $1000-$1500.

@Steve If you happen to be up in Big Bear this weekend, let me know. I’m here in BB through Saturday and leaving on Sunday.

[STEVE]

STEVE on January 3, 2021 at 9:10 pm #20447

Hi,
I’m the other contributor to the Piper Flyer forums; I own a 1960 Piper PA 24 Comanche. It’s the perfect airplane for my mission.
As in all purchases you’ll want to take some time to define your mission. I am a very experienced A & P with IA and I bought my Comanche for the following reasons. The unbeatable reputation of the Lycoming O-360 engine, the compact hub Hartzell prop, and because it was a good cross country airplane.
Regular XC flights yield speeds from around 132-140 knots at around 8.5 to 10 gph. Speed mods help. My goal is flying to go places. I rarely go up for “a flight” My airplane is a valuable tool for traveling.
When I bought mine (in 2006) it had one logbook each for the engine, prop and airframe but because of that I got a screaming good deal. I inspected it thoroughly before putting down my money.
In the years since I’ve gone through every system from spinner to tail and overhauled the engine, the prop and the landing gear motor and transmission. It’s in excellent mechanical condition.
The last time I took it to Oshkosh (AirVenture) in Wisconsin I took off from my home airport in Paso Robles, CA (KPRB) climbed to 11,500 feet and flew across the Sierras, landed at Nephi, UT for fuel, then got in and climbed back up to 11,500 feet to cross the Rockies. The day ended at Alliance, NE. The next day it was non stop into the airport I like near Oshkosh (Crown Point).
Later that year I and my girl friend flew from KPRB to Big Bear City (L35). An airport at 6752 feet MSL. It was late in the year but my Comanche handled the take off at that altitude without problems.
It’s the best handing single I’ve ever owned. There’s a lot of support and a wonderful community of Comanches helpers.
I’d look for a Comanche if I were you.
Please, if you decide on a Comanche, that you get the pre purchase inspection done by a Comanche savvy mechanic.
Let me know if you have more questions

[Kristin Winter]

Kristin Winter on January 2, 2021 at 9:42 pm #20445

When it comes to Arrows, I am partial to the Arrow II or the III. That gave you a 5″ stretch of the fuselage. The III has the higher aspect ratio wing which might be a bit better at altitude. However, for altitude performance, it is hard to beat the Comanche. You will find a number of Comanche articles here on the Piper Flyer site. I wrote a guide to them that was published around March of 2016.

If a Comanche interests you, I would not recommend Savvy, but we can help you out there. They are sufficiently different from other aircraft so that if you are not inculcated in the care and feeding of Comanches, you will miss things. Here, myself and Steve Ells owns Comanches so can help. There is also the Airworthy Comanche Forum on Delphi which is a good source of information on Comanches.

Just out of curiosity, what does Savvy charge to do a logbook review?

Kristin

[Jen D]

Jen D on January 1, 2021 at 12:57 am #20442

Welcome, Jay! Let us know if there is anything we can do to help.
Blue skies,
Jennifer Dellenbusch

[Jay Andrews]

Jay Andrews on December 31, 2020 at 4:13 am #20441

New member here with a first post to say hi to the group. All of my time has been in Cherokee, Warrior, and Archer rentals. I’ve started shopping for my first plane and considering Archer, Arrow, Cherokee 6, and Comanche aircraft. Any tips and suggestions for a first time buyer are appreciated.

I fly out of a 6500′ elevation airport in the Rockies so the 180 would be the least HP that I would go. Going with the Arrow or Comanche would require transition training for the Complex endorsement and the Cherokee 6 would require the High Performance endorsement. Any advice on these would be great.

I’m currently looking at an Arrow that I will see this weekend. I’ve contacted Savvy to review the logbooks already. The recent logs look good with no major concerns. The annual is current as of November and the recent AD for the wing spar is already done. Logs from the first 4 years are missing (’73-’76). While this is of some concern, I’d be more concerned if they were more recent logs. With 40+ years of annual inspections and all modern logs in hand that look good, what is the value of the first 4 years of logs toward the purchase? I’ve seen a wide range of opinions on this issue and would appreciate feedback from this group. Also, any feedback on Savvy for a pre-purchase inspection is appreciated.

Any suggestions in particular for items to personally inspect on a 70’s Arrow prior to a paid pre-purchase inspection?