[STEVE]

STEVE on July 19, 2023 at 9:04 am #22077

Eric, 
I haven’t seen anything factual about a warranty problem from Superior is unleaded fuel is used; a belief was posted in this thread.

I’ve contacted Superior to see what it says about warranties and unleaded avgas usage.

S

[STEVE]

STEVE on July 19, 2023 at 9:02 am #22076

Hi Charlie;
I’ve reached out to Superior to see if unleaded fuel use affects its warranty.

Awaiting a reply.

Yes, there is a requirement to “re authorize” the use of UL fuel after any leaded fuel is added one the user has performed the “authorization” procedure in Lyc SI 270. 

Not sure why, but that’s what it says.

Steve

[CHARLIE MUELLER]

CHARLIE MUELLER on July 19, 2023 at 6:28 am #22075

Eric-

I will update but after seeing Steve’s input -I think the need for lead on Avgas for my engine is myth.

Charlie

[Eric Parks]

Eric Parks on July 18, 2023 at 3:14 pm #22074

Wow, interesting pricing. I am guessing they want to make sure there is enough fuel for local aircraft but almost double the price seems extreme. I would assume as Unleaded 100 octane fuel becomes more common this will drop.

I too find it strange that Superior is saying that unleaded fuel would void their warranty. Part of the extensive work GAMI did on their fuel was showing that the lead was not needed. I would love to know if Superior is saying this based on testing or just myth.

[CHARLIE MUELLER]

CHARLIE MUELLER on July 17, 2023 at 2:17 pm #22073

Steve-

Thank you and I will ask my mechanic about the reference source but it did seem though it was “local knowledge” or unofficial knowledge based upon experience that may not be based in data/science. I am wondering if Superior, the manufacturer of the Millennium cylinders that I will be getting has anything out there on 94UL-I will search.

Lastly I read the documents that you sent to me and it appears that I cannot switch back and forth between 94UL and 100LL without going through a transition process that involves changing the oil and filter. This may make the use of 94UL impractical for the foreseeable future because I buy fuel regularly at other airports when I take cross country flights. I am hoping I am wrong about this but that is how I read it.

Thanks again for all of you guidance on this.

Charlie

[STEVE]

STEVE on July 17, 2023 at 9:23 am #22072

Hi Charlie;
I would ask you mechanic for a reference to the information about the necessity for lead in avgas. I’ve heard that for decades so when unleaded UL 94 was introduced I asked that question.

I was told that in order to get FAA approval of UL 94, an engine has to be run on it during what I believe is called a 150 hour endurance test. After the test is over the engine is torn down for inspection to look for any problems.
Since the STC was granted, the FAA must have felt that there were no detrimental effects.

Lycoming has added Swift UL94 to it’s approved fuel list. This is in Lycoming Service Letter SI1070.
In SL 270, Lycoming extended the oil/filter change interval to 100 hours if unleaded fuel is used.

You and your mechanic can get answers to problems such as these by going to the Swift Fuels website and reading the Q and A page.

Since both Continental and Lycoming endorse the use of these fuels, I assure you that your warranty will not be cancelled using these fuels.

Your mechanic is trying to help, but he is mis informed.

Steve  

 

[CHARLIE MUELLER]

CHARLIE MUELLER on July 16, 2023 at 3:10 pm #22069

Eric-

Naples Aviation is charging $9.89 per gallon for transient and $5.28 per gallon for UL94 for those of us that are based at the airport and have lease at the airport.

[CHARLIE MUELLER]

CHARLIE MUELLER on July 16, 2023 at 3:04 pm #22068

Hi Steve- Thank you for your reply. I want to run by some feedback that I received from the shop that is doing my overhaul. The owner who I like and trust informed me that if I burn UL94 I will void the warranty on my new Millennium cylinders. I was unaware of that fact and didn’t think to ask that question-frankly I did not think UL 94 would be available this fast and I probably would not have inquired before choosing Millennium vs. Lycoming. I could probably just burn 100LL for the first year (I think they have a 1 year warranty) and then switch to UL94, except that I was told that my engine relies on some of the lead in a small amount of fuel that is uncombusted and passes around the exhaust valve and lubricates the valves. He indicated that I should stick with 100LL. This surprised me -why would the STC be available on my O-540-J3A5D engine if the valves need lead. Maybe this is unique to the Millennium cylinders?

I would appreciate your additional input on this.

Charlie

[STEVE]

STEVE on June 15, 2023 at 10:30 am #22029

Hi Charlie;
Lucky you. I wish it was available at my airport. I did a flight test article and had 94UL in one of my fuel tanks and 100LL in the other. I also have a pretty sophisticated engine monitor–Electronics International CGR-30P–to check for any changes in EGT temperatures when I switched from 100LL to 94UL.
I flew a couple of different flight profiles to see if a full throttle climb, or leaning to peak made any difference in the numbers. I didn’t see one iota of variance in the EGT numbers when I switched from one fuel to the other.

Your Dakota with that engine is eligible for the STC. Go to this link to buy it:https://www.swiftfuelsavgas.com/stc/Piper/PA-28-236/any/any/any.

Here is the link to my article on 94UL in the Piper Flyer magazine:
https://www.www.piperflyer.com/maintenance-technical/1187-papa-s-got-a-brand-new-fuel.html?jaredirect

An article on my 94UL test was also printed in the EAA Sport Aviation magazine. Here’s the link:
file:///C:/Users/Steve%20Ells/OneDrive/Documents/Ells%20Aviation%20LLC/EAAPDFs/UL94Fuel.pdf  

If I were you I would buy the STC and if you’re able always fuel with 94UL if it’s available. 

[Eric Parks]

Eric Parks on June 14, 2023 at 2:04 pm #22028

Charlie,

I am assuming the UL94 you refer to is the Swift fuel. Both your Dakota (the PA-28-235 or PA-28-236, NOT the PA-28-201T) and my PA-23-150 can use UL94. Swift will sell you an STC for the fuel for $103. I am getting this info from the Swift Fuels site: https://www.swiftfuelsavgas.com/

They have info on the site to get the STC.

I am very interested in what they are charging per gallon. Please let us know. I hope to use 100UL or UL94 soon too.

Eric