[Anthony Armbrister]

Anthony Armbrister on March 8, 2019 at 2:06 pm #19059

Hi Rick, I really appreciate your input. Being new to the Navajo, this information very helpful. between you and Mark you’ve given me a better idea about what it take to keep the Navajo running smoothly. All the AD information has been an eye opener. if you think of anything else I’ll appreciate the information.
Once again thanks.

[Rick Henry]

Rick Henry on March 7, 2019 at 7:09 pm #19058

I’ve had my ’76 C/R for 5 1/2 years now and love it, but I’ve put a lot of maintenance hours into it.
Regarding LOP operation, I love what Mark Davidson said. Personally I tried LOP for a while and I don’t do it anymore. Long story and that’s all I’ll say about it…
I elect to cruise at 29-30″ MAP and 2,200 RPM which is about 60-65% when in the 8-10,000′ range. I elect to set the analog EGTs between 1450 and 1500° which results in about 17.5 GPH per side, somewhat rich of peak and a TAS of 170 K. The engines seem very ‘happy’ there, so that’s what I’ve done for the last 2 1/2 years. Certainly you could pour more gas to it to gain 10 or 20K, but I don’t.
There are now TWO “Fuselage cracks” ADs:
1) 2016-05-01 (4/15/2016) for fuselage sta. 317.75 which has two parts: an inspection every 100 hours and a required modification due by 500 hrs. TIS after 4/15/2016. I have yet to do the required modification and I’m not looking forward to it.
2) 2017-10-20 (6/29/2017) for fuselage sta. 332.0 inspection which is due by 500 hrs. TIS after 6/29/2017. This is apparently difficult to do [correctly], and can get quite involved (removing entire tail, etc.) if the modification to remove the AD is desired.
I mentioned these to a guy buying a Navajo who just wanted the modifications done as he took possession and it cost a bit over $10,000 to complete them. The installer said he’d “never do it for only that much again.”
There is a 50 hour AD on the fuel pumps (visual inspection for leaks) and a 60 hour / 6 month AD on the exhaust system (visual inspection) and several fairly easy 100 hr. ADs.
All in all, we love the airplane – the comfort, smoothness, performance, redundancy and reliability.
Best of luck with your purchase.

[Marc Davidson]

Marc Davidson on February 27, 2019 at 2:04 pm #19035

2 quick pre buy tips.
1. Electric windshield is required (there is an STC for a hot plate replacement) for flights with ice. These are very expensive if you can find one. Minimum used 15-17K$ If it doesn’t work you have a NO ice plane that in my opinion is unacceptable. If you really want that particular hull, I would drop price 50K$. The labor and parts (other than the windshield) to replace that windshield would run around 5K$ Down time, headache $ too.
2. Log book evaluation with the list of ADs – airworthiness directives and SBs – service bulletins (SB many of which Piper considers mandatory) is crucial. Last AD effective 6/2017 requires a structural fix and kit. There has been fatigue cracking in the fuselage station 332.00 bulkhead common to the horizontal stabilizer front spar attachment that was a SB now an AD. Just more dollars if not already completed. There are 65 ADs and 46 SBs for the PA-325 that should have been complied with since new. If there is any discrepancies not taken care of by previous owners, and you still want the hull…drop the price, then you have the job to fix. All ADs need to be completed to maintain airworthiness of the aircraft. Errors have been known to occur. Time and money will fix though.

[Anthony Armbrister]

Anthony Armbrister on February 27, 2019 at 12:53 pm #19034

WOW, beautiful panel, I’m afraid the plane I’m looking at is still has steam gages + 530W, 430W and a 696. I can only dream about you panel!!

[Marc Davidson]

Marc Davidson on February 27, 2019 at 6:36 am #19024

All performance specs in the approved flight manual, there is a nice table for altitude, power settings, and speeds.
There are plenty of navajo series planes around flying PA-31, PA-31-300, PA-31-325, PA-31-350. You may have to ask around at several shops to see if one of your local shops takes care of one already. May have to check in another city close by too. Small squawks no big deal but system problems need some knowledge and experience.

Doing a Garmin avionics redo…

[Anthony Armbrister]

Anthony Armbrister on February 27, 2019 at 6:02 am #19021

This airplane has good avionics and a SETC 55X auto pilot. It only need ADS-B upgrade.
I do not have a mechanic familiar with the Navajo.
I will check our ATP for manuals. Myself being new to this airplane I appreciate your help.
Can you give me any idea as to cruise speeds and fuel consumption, or recommend a place to find the information?
Thanks for all your knowledge.

[Marc Davidson]

Marc Davidson on February 26, 2019 at 5:18 pm #19020

if you want an avionics upgrade I know how to do it.

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[Marc Davidson]

Marc Davidson on February 26, 2019 at 4:53 pm #19014

Great
Do you have a mechanic that has experience with Navajos? There is a long list of ADs that need to have been complied with. It took me a day to sort through the logs with my very experienced Navajo mechanic on my PA-31 purchase.
You need to have access to all of the manuals which is expensive, 1200$/year from ATP.
https://www.atp.com/
Access to up to date manuals for maintenance and annual is required by the FAA. No one that works on my plane has access, I provide with a logon password.
AD information all on ATP along with Illustrated parts catalogs, maintenance manuals, and service bulletins.
I think the PA-31-325 has a TBO of 1800 hrs so 800hr engines are nice if used properly since install.
That sounds squared away.
I think that you are right that the engine hoses should have been replaced with the engine replacement, just check the tag on the hoses for quick reference, of course log book should have documented.
Again the hydraulic and fuel conveyance hoses which are different and are cheap insurance.
Barons better off totaled (ouch, coming from a navajo driver) although it sounds like it was your “baby”. Sorry to see it go, glad you were not injured.
Navajo is definitely a step up. Way more plane, you will grow 2-3 inches while on the ramp, chest out.
Making the wife happy is important, married 30 yrs (to the same), got that. Space is no comparison, aisle, bulk heads, potty seat, you win.
Good luck

[Anthony Armbrister]

Anthony Armbrister on February 26, 2019 at 1:51 pm #19013

Hi Marc, Thank you for the information on the hydraulic system, I will make it a point to have that checked during the Pre-Buy inspection and the annual they will perform before I take delivery. This airplane had firewall forward with Lycoming factory engines 800 hours ago so I suspect all the hoses got replaced then, but once again I will insist that be verified. My last plane was a Baron 58, I had it for 28 years unfortunately it got totaled due to a mechanics mistake. no injuries but on more Baron 58. I wanted to move up to the Navajo to give my wife more space and more comfort. I just hope the added cost aren’t too much more. Once again thanks.

[Marc Davidson]

Marc Davidson on February 25, 2019 at 10:05 pm #19012

Wow great choice.
Maintenance…everything rubber is 41yo and near death. Checkhose tags for fuel conveyance, hydraulic lines, and engine hoses. Many of mine were original and I replaced (parts) with Precision Hose Technology kits for Under 1000$ for all hydraulics, under 700$ for all fuel conveyance. Cheap parts, your mechanic speed determines the total cost.
See Kathryn’s Report for Navajo ruptured hydraulic line, gear up crash, total loss.
LOP…zealots on both sides. Discussing causes lifelong friends to go their separate ways. Same as religion. Whatever you decide, keep it to yourself.
Last, keep a large separate bank account, tell her things like, “it’s all going to be fine”, or “isn’t the plane beautiful?”, and “do you want to go to the bahamas for the weekend?”